Three times a year our team conducts a short interview with a Christian author, musician, or artist. Our purpose is to present how we may know Christ as Husband and God as Loving Father-Bearer. If you are, or know of any other budding talents who revel in God's birthing intimacy, unleashing creativity and vision, please provide us with names so that we may contact them. We especially seek little-known people, young or old, with the heart of the shepherd boy, David. We believe that they are hidden-in-training for great feats!
On this series of pages we also encourage you to e-mail comments as a means of feedback for our artists. This interaction provides an important sense of how their emerging talent is being publicly received. Our featured artists monitor our site on a regular basis. Many will also have their own website or web pages for you to access, or a newbornBooks e-mail address, and they are more than willing to answer your questions. We will supply contact information at the end of each interview.
Bondservant of Jesus Christ; beloved nurturer of His Bride; teacher of the Word; psalmist
with
Great South Land Ministries
Named after the area of Australia know as the Great South Land of the Holy Spirit
(see: http://www.greatsouthland.org/greatsouthland.html)
Cheryl McGrath walks with God. Wooed by the Lord, adoring His presence, grounded in the Word, and matured into sound wisdom, Cheryl is passionate about nurturing Christ's love within the Bride. She has been groomed over time and ushered by the Lord into ministry through Great South Land Ministries in Australia. She is known respectfully to several of her spiritual children as "Mama Cheryl." Her insight is like a sweet whisper from the Spirit; you will see that it displays the level of intimacy dawning upon the Bride for our time.
Gemma: Welcome, Cheryl! Could you begin by describing your relationship with the Lord when you are alone with Him?
Cheryl:
Since my early years I have always been given to prayer, and as I grew in the Lord I loved the "coming aside" for refreshment in the Word and for unburdening my heart to Jesus. However, in the early nineties, after I'd been a believer for many years, I guess you could say Spirit totally apprehended my spiritual walk and I was completely and irreversibly revived. It's impossible for me any longer to think of meeting with the Lord in the secret place as being something separate from every other aspect of my daily life. Jesus began to reveal Himself to me in those quiet "aside" times in a way I had never previously known was possible in this life. We've been deeply immersed in a love affair ever since. As a result of this personal revival, I went through a long season of discovering the unequalled joy of spiritual intimacy with Christ, the Bridegroom and Lover of my soul. So much so that I longed to spend all my time only in that place of intimacy, beholding His beauty and hearing the sweetness of His Voice. I hated coming away from that place to go about my "normal" activities to the point where it hurt. I would often say to Him, "I want to live here, at Your feet", and He would gently reply, "I want you to go out, and return here. You can't spend your life here in seclusion with Me, but I will be with You." At the time I couldn't understand why not, yet at the same time I was learning that you cannot enjoy the deepest intimacy with Christ unless you yield to the work of the Cross in your life and embrace Him even in the fellowship of His sufferings. Now, I have to add that as beautiful and fulfilling as that secret place is, I'm discovering it's more of a beginning than a culmination. For there is a deep communion, an uninterrupted oneness with Jesus, that comes forth from both delighting in Him and suffering with Him, where you can live every hour of every day in the Spirit. The Bible calls it that old-fashioned word "abiding" and I believe we as the church have largely not even begun to grasp what it means to abide in Christ and have Him abide in us. It's more than resting in Him - it's oneness; a single-mindedness in and with Him that overrules all the arguments of flesh and overrides all natural laws and inclinations. It is not constant conversation with Him, because it's far deeper than conversation, though conversation with Him can take place at any time on any level. I would say rather it is a deep unbroken, often-unspoken communion that remains and is totally unrelated to one's surroundings or present circumstances.
This abiding communion doesn't replace those intimate times of "coming aside" to Jesus, rather it complements and enhances those times, because it's a place where you have come aside permanently in the Spirit. Consequently, there is a constant flowing between these two different expressions of communion, one in the secret place and the other wherever I may find myself at any time. That's why I say I find it impossible to separate my spiritual walk into those "coming aside private times" and "the rest of the time". The communion that is continually rediscovered in times of intimate one-on-one time with the Lord continues and remains constantly active as we engage in other activities. And that time of intimacy also becomes the natural outflow of this deep communion that has been taking place in the Spirit before and after coming aside. This means, for me, there is no single "quiet time", but simply a continual movement between these two expressions of intimacy. Though I like to "come aside" privately with the Lord in the morning of each day to make myself available to Him before anything else, it is also understood between us that if He calls, I will come because He is my first love. Many times I may be involved in other activities in home or ministry, and He will call me aside, simply to be with Him. It is not a burden for me to leave whatever I am doing and go and sit with Him, because we are already abiding in unbroken communion. My body and soul are simply responding to what is already happening in the Spirit, where there is a continuous calling of deep to deep. I have become so in-love with the Lover of my soul that I am always on alert for His call, His smile, just the glance of His Eyes, and I will abandon all else to run to meet with Him, even for a few moments. But I no longer fret for those moments, because the sense of His love in me and through me abides constantly, whatever I am engaged in. As He said "He in us, and we in Him."
As a mother of four, I was not always in a position to do this, and I mean to place no burden on others, especially women, who find it very difficult to get any time with the Lord, alone or otherwise. The Shulemite introduced the Beloved in this way: "This is My Beloved, and this is my Friend..." and I think that is probably the best way I can summarise what I am trying to convey. He has become both My Beloved and My Friend. The One who thrills my soul with His beauty, His love and His majesty, and at the same time my trusted faithful Friend whose fellowship I treasure above all else. I love the comfort of resting in His arms or leaning on His breast, but I also am constantly being renewed and invigorated by His companionship. He knows me and yet He loves me and that is the most secure and freest atmosphere one can possibly enjoy in this world. He brings us to His banqueting house of love, and He also leads us forth to the field and the vineyard (SOS 7:11,12). This is our Beloved, and this is also our Friend. You know, the apostle John was given a vision of the Bride, the Lamb's wife (Rev. 21:9). In the original Greek language those two words, "bride" and "wife", are not the same. Bride is "numphe" meaning betrothed, or one newly married, a young wife, while wife in the same verse is "gune", a word used elsewhere in scripture to denote a more mature, established married woman. My point is that John was shown the mature Bride (numphe) who is also referred to as the "wife (gune) of the Lamb". The young passionate Bride must mature into the faithful Wife, without losing any of her passion for the Bridegroom. That's why I believe that the betrothed Bride must grow in relationship with the Bridegroom as her Beloved, but also as her Friend. The Bridegroom desires a Bride who is at ease with Him both in the bedchamber and on the battlefield.
Bo: Could you outline your calling and ministry to the Bride of Christ for us?
Cheryl:
I was a believer for many years before I realised that the Bible teaches we all serve the same Lord through different and diverse ministries (1 Cor. 12:4). I was trying to be all things to all people, and thereby hindering the Spirit in growing me in the specific area of ministry to which I was being called. You can begin to identify your calling by the involuntary stirring that rises in you when you think or talk about certain spiritual needs. As I said, it's taken many years, partly due to my own lack of spiritual "parenting" and partly due to other factors, but the Lord has made it abundantly clear to me that I am currently called to equip, strengthen, nurture, and encourage His Bride-Church through the impartation of revelatory teaching and other specific anointings He has given me for that purpose. I suppose the revelation of this calling began to become real to me in the late nineties when I had a night- time visitation from Jesus. He came as the Risen Lamb and I was terrified by this manifestation of His Presence. He spoke with me in a language I did not understand in my natural mind and His Voice sounded like the rushing of many rivers. He reached out and imparted something to me, touching me on my right arm. It wasn't until much later I understood, through the Holy Spirit, what He actually said to me, but from that time on I began to recognise and accept I had a specific, defined call on my life which I believe was always there in a dormant form. During that encounter the Lord activated and released it. He has more closely defined and confirmed my specific calling on several occasions since then - not in spectacular "thunder from Heaven" terms - mostly with His constantly re-assuring Voice drawing me and encouraging me, especially at times when I have been less than co-operative (which has been often!).
One of the ways in which the Lord affirmed me in this call was through Matthew 24:45, & 46, which speaks of the wise and faithful steward who gives food to the Master's household in due season. At times I have become a little overwhelmed by my intense awareness of the responsibility of being faithful to this call, which is apostolic in nature. It was at such a time that the Lord quickened that passage to me. After that, it became easier because I could think of myself primarily as a "steward" in the Lord's house. It's a word that combines authority with the essential ingredients of servanthood and humility, and that sits well with me. There is a section in Paul's second letter to the Corinthian church where he speaks of the "field" or "sphere" of ministry that God has appointed him to (2 Cor. 10:13-16). That passage too has been of great help to me in coming to realise I am not expected to have an answer for every question, or to minister effectively in every area of Body-life. I have, as each of us do, a specific field of ministry where I have been called to give my attention, and which in time if I am faithful, will be expanded. The Bride of Christ is my major field of ministry. Of course, I am still growing into my calling, as most of us are, but I have been equipped to minister in that specific field and therefore I am quite passionate about the subject of the Lord's Bride. I am jealous over her with a fervent protection and agonise inwardly over her when I discern her response to the Bridegroom to be less than what He is worthy of. There have been times when I have been led to rebuke the Bride, and times when I have been led to wash her feet. You dare not do the former if you can't do the latter by the way. I was taught for many years that the whole church is the Bride of Christ. I've come to believe the whole Church is CALLED as the Bride of Christ, but only a faithful remnant are attaining that call. Many are called, few are chosen, and those who ride with the Lamb are called, chosen, and most importantly, FAITHFUL (see Rev. 17:14 ). When Mary of Bethany sat at the feet of Jesus the kisses of His mouth (His Word) rained down on her. It was a place she chose though all her tradition, culture, and family's expectations said otherwise. Her family said she should not be idle; her tradition said she should be serving the men; her culture said she should not be taught because she was a woman. But Jesus said "... what she has chosen shall not be taken from her." The place she chose is the place of the adoring Bride - "let Him kiss me with the kisses of His Mouth." All in the church are called to this place, but not all will choose it.
Tessa: As you consider the breadth of God's Love hovering over the earth, how would you put His Heart for us into words?
Cheryl:
The scriptures state that God is love, but very few of us can honestly say we have a full revelation of what that fully means. We witness God's love for us in the beauty and majesty of creation, we read of His love for us in His Word, and we experience His love for us through the revelation of Christ's sacrifice at Calvary and the mystery of the Cross. Is that platonic or intimate Love? If by the word "platonic" we mean a God who is our close friend and someone we can rely on, yes He is both of these. But God's friendship is not the same as human friendship. God desires to relate to His people in a far deeper place than our human and cultural understandings of friendship allow. He desires friendship that comes forth from deep communion. "This is my BELOVED, and this is my FRIEND" ...... (Song of Solomon 5:16). The truth is God doesn't just love, He IS love. And He knows how to love us and chooses to express His love for us on many different levels of relationship. The word "intimate" does not specifically mean "sexual knowledge" - it actually has a much wider application. In fact, a search of several dictionaries discloses the following definitions for the word "intimate": *very close in friendship or affection; *showing profound and detailed knowledge and understanding as from long study; *closely interconnected or interrelated; *near; close; direct; thorough; complete; *relating to or indicative of one's deepest nature; To speak of an "intimate relationship" with Christ means to know Him and to be known by Him deeply and completely. For the believer, it means there is no place within us that is held back from Him, no part of our lives where He is not Lord, no sin or fear that is not surrendered to Him. It means the knowledge of Christ is our greatest desire and consequently our greatest pursuit. Notice this is not knowledge ABOUT Christ; it is not accumulated information about His Word, His teachings, or His life history. I am speaking of the deep, experiential knowledge of Him gained only through sincerely seeking His face in worship and spending time in His Presence and His Word.
The riches of Christ are so deep they will be continually unfolding to us throughout eternity, but we do not need to wait until we enter Heaven to begin to know Christ. We can know Him now in this realm. From the moment we are born again the Holy Spirit begins revealing Christ to us. It is this knowledge of Him, or communion with Him, that we call intimacy. This spiritual intimacy can in some ways be compared in our understanding to the close physical intimacy and fellowship of a strong and healthy marriage relationship. However, the scriptures are clear that the spiritual and the natural can never mix. As Jesus explained to Nicodemus, that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (John 3: 6 ). God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Therefore there should be no doubt or confusion that when speaking of intimacy with God we are speaking in terms of Spirit to spirit.
When God created mankind it was for the purpose of fellowship and communion. Adam and Eve originally had the great privilege of walking with God the Creator in the cool of the day (Gen 3:8). This implies, friendship, fellowship and intimate communion between God and mankind. Keep in mind that it was God who came searching for this communion with Adam and Eve after they had sinned (Gen. 3:9). God has always been the initiator in seeking man's fellowship and friendship. Immediately that original fellowship was broken through mankind's sin, God wasted no time in instituting a plan for its restoration. He was prophesying that plan even before Adam and Eve were banished from the garden (Gen. 3:15) The scriptures reveal that it is the Father's desire to fill us with the fullness of Christ (John 1:16: Eph. 3:19). Christ is the Father's total answer to the problem of broken fellowship. He is the reconciler between God the Creator, and His creation, man. We need to fully believe and comprehend that God greatly desires communion with mankind before we can begin to understand the issue of spiritual intimacy. God greatly desires to be known! Sadly, many believers accept the free gift of salvation and stop right there. Their lives are never surrendered and exchanged for the life of Christ within. Instead they live according to a system of religious rules and believe they are living Christian lives. They may be living by Christian ethics, but they are not being transformed from glory to glory into the image of Christ, because they have no desire to know Him. Others choose to remain in spiritual infancy, crying out for help at every crisis, but choosing not to pursue the fullness of Christ because denial of their flesh is too high a price. They are like the foolish virgins who were locked out of the wedding feast, not watching for the Bridegroom, because their lives are all about themselves rather than Him. Intimacy with Christ, however, is the reward for those who are maturing into the Bride of Christ.
There are several Greek words used in the New Testament for the words "know" or "knew". However, when Jesus said in John 10:14-15, "I know My sheep and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father...." the Greek word "ginosko" is used. Interestingly, this term is the same New Testament word used to describe intimate knowledge between a man and woman. For instance in Matthew 1:25, Joseph did not "know" Mary until she had brought forth her firstborn Son. It is also the same word used by Mary when she asked the angel Gabriel "How can this be, since I do not know a man?" (Luke 1:45) Vine's Expository Dictionary states that the Greek word "ginosko" implies "an active relation between the one who knows and the person or thing known". Jesus used the word "ginosko" in the following passage: "Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in our name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never KNEW you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" What do we learn from these observations? Firstly, that the Father and the Son know each other intimately - they have an active, close, relationship where each is known fully and loved completely by the other. They are totally involved and connected with each other on all levels. Secondly, this is the kind of relationship Jesus desires with His followers - to know and be known in this intimate and active way. Thirdly, we learn that it is even possible to do many great works and exercise supernatural gifts in Jesus Name, without knowing Him in the place of this intimate, active relationship.
Throughout the Old Testament, Israel is spoken of as God's bride, or wife. Many times idolatrous Israel is referred to as an adulterous bride, and God even spoke of divorcing Israel! ( Jeremiah 3:8, 14; Ezekiel 16; Isaiah 50:1, Jeremiah 11:15; Jeremiah 12:7). Furthermore, the Song of Solomon, though historically known to be a record of a love story between King Solomon and a Shulamite maiden, is also recognised by most Bible scholars as a prophetic picture of Christ and His Bride-Church. This beautiful Old Testament book is rich in "romantic" terminology as The Beloved (Christ) seeks out His Bride:" 'Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away....' O my dove, in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the cliff, let me see your face, let me hear your voice, for your voice is sweet and your face is lovely." And the Bride responds "When I found the one I love, I held him and would not let him go...." In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul obviously understood Christ's love for the church in terms of a Bridegroom for His Bride. He wrote to the Corinthians, "I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Cor. 11:2), and to the Ephesians, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her.... For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church" (Eph. 5:25; 30-32). John the Baptist referred to Jesus as a Bridegroom seeking His Bride (John 3:28,29) and Jesus also described Himself as a Bridegroom having come for His Bride (Mark 2:19,20).
The Word of God uses various analogies to describe the relationship between God and His people. For example, the church is spoken of in terms of being Christ's "body" (1 Cor. 12:13) , the "sons (children) of God" (Heb. 12:7), and and "a spiritual house of living stones" (1 Peter 2:5). These are all important analogies, or word pictures, in helping us to understand various aspects of our relationship to the Lord, and our relationships to one another. However, I believe the analogy of the church of Christ as His Bride is of greatest significance, because it flows consistently throughout the New Testament and it is the Bride-Church we find standing at the end of the age, crying out to Jesus along with the Spirit, "Come" (Rev. 22:17). Why does God choose to use the word "bride" to describe those who know Jesus and are known by Him? The complete answer to that mystery will only become evident in eternity hereafter. However, it may help to consider this: Is there any other relationship known among human beings worldwide that is more unique, deeply abiding, mysterious, and universally understood, than the covenantal union between a man and a woman as it was originally ordained to be by our Creator? Could God have chosen any more revealing way to convey His desire for covenantal communion and fellowship with us than the words "Bride" and "Bridegroom"? Why do people all over the world cry at weddings? Because, whether we admit it or not, marriage is covenant! God is a Covenant-keeping god. He understands and values covenant, and desperately desires covenant relationship with us. Unfortunately, in the Western church, we don't understand or honour covenant nearly as completely as He does. Nevertheless, when Christ returns to the earth, there will be a covenant-keeping Bride waiting for Him. The Bridegroom is returning for a Bride without blemish - let's make ourselves ready!
Peter: Can you share any birthing experiences that you have had with the Holy Spirit for us?
Cheryl:
I often feel like I am both giving birth and being birthed simultaneously. There are many individual and separate instances I can think of when the Holy Spirit has enabled me to "birth" something on the earth that had already been decreed in Heaven. This is the essence of prophetic intercession. But in a more general and consistent way, there is an ongoing birthing whereby we are privileged to fellowship with the Spirit in bringing forth the Kingdom here on the earth. For me personally, even over and above any specific intercessory burdens I may receive from the Spirit, there is a constant travail happening in my spirit for the forming of Christ in His church. It ebbs and flows in intensity just as natural labour does. I find I identify very closely with Paul's words to the Galatians when he wrote "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you....." (Gal. 4:19). The outstanding word in that verse for me is "again", because this travailing for Christ's Bride to be totally conformed to His image is very much an ongoing travail that resounds throughout all of Heaven and all of creation. I see my part in it as no more than yielding to the will of Heaven and allowing myself to be a vessel - one of many throughout church history - that will help carry that travail to its completion.
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